127; view 1, Wissen ist Macht, das gilt fr jeden, der im ffentlichen Leben steht und vorwrstsstrebt, besonders aber fr die Polizeibeamten, da ihn sein Beruf tglich und stundlich in engste Berhrung mit der Bevlterung bringt. The other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur,' or letter. 05-24-2021 12:04 AM by Neil Young. The metal finish is in very good condition. -techn. rural police groups: The Einwohnerwehr was a paramilitary police force formed by Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles.The use of these new style police cleaning rods, which coincidently are the last design and use of a wooden barrel handle cleaning rod for the P.08, is described by Sturgess in TBLAP, VIII, C19, pp 1331, 1332 as follows: Most were fitted with bell-shaped brass stops, soft soldered on their shafts, to give the correct length, 130 135mm approximately, for cleaning the barrel of the short P.08 when used with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector) which was then in police service. During the Weimar Era, German police power remained decentralized. circumference edge, circular collar past the sight block/blade, GERMAN POLICE LUGER P08 MAGAZINE DOVE MARKINGS. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. the same style holster pictured with a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319. is an identical holster in the collection, 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859. separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. Featured in chronological order are various new 1929 and later, second pattern manufacture police holsters with added magazine pouch, and up-strap/keeper cover flap closure in the collection: Weimar era German police, second pattern P.08 Luger holster that is maker marked Paul Gldner Halle a.S. or Halle an der Saale (Halle on the Saale River) on the back and dated 1933. Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. Pictured is a brown leather 1934 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst L police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 6710; view 1 and view 2. These Nazi Police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which is a misnomer. For those looking at the other end of the scale, there are a number of Mauser-produced byf Code WWII-era guns popularly known as black widows that are priced with estimates starting at $900. It is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle and the 'v' suffix have been reported so far. by Igorak89 07 May 2016, 13:07, Post The subject Police holster E/Mg10 stamping is recognized by collectors as authentic, based on three examples seen on WwMg/41 dated WW2 military issued P08 holsters. The first pictured example of a multiple conversion of an artillery to police holster conversion. Over all good condition. Faded roman numeral ink stampings on the inside cover flap indicate Imperial army, possibly depot origins. Heinrich Krieghoff - Suhl, Germany At least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist. Stay in the know. A rare DWM-made Model 1906 9mm para made for the Tsarist Russia contract. Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. Interestingly, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, as the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod. These consisted of the following city and This 1943 dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all leather Police holsters. Pictured are three views of a fine example holster; view 1, view 2, view 3. Zone vs. the WW2 Bahnschutz (Railway Protection). It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. police issue 7-inch Still. The missing upper left corner of the left grip is part of the mag safety modification. Thanks. The holster was obtained with a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft Sunburst S (1932-36), specifically made to be used with police Lugers. is the only publication that is very specific as to its use, unfortunately, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. 113-114 - A combination of new information and reconsideration leads me to believe that the Type 3 markings S.D.I, II, III, IV and VI represented the large Schupo commands in Essen, Wuppertal, Dsseldorf, Duisburg-Hamborn and Oberhausen, respectively. It is a matter of common courtesy to credit the past authors/collectors that for the last three decades have discussed the 29 DWM Lugers in the s, t and u suffix serial range. A community dedicated to Lugers, Central Powers, Axis, Allied and related WW-I and WW-II pistols by their scholars, collectors, owners and enthusiasts. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. institute for technology and transport. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty. These cut-back LP.08 holsters were used or at least modified/converted until 1928 when a new style of police holster was introduced without a holster spine attached cleaning rod sleeve, replacing it with a spare magazine pouch. 3 days Left DWM 1906 SWISS POLICE LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Zone railway police used an earlier, relatively obscure 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model 1922 pistol. Since the first edition was published in February d. Zs. which JavaScript is disabled. Knowing that, and having the history of the The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. Best, Pat He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. For more detailed information on the 1949 Police manual. Item Information. The holster, shown with pistol, is unusual as it was made without a loading tool pouch under the cover flap and the cover flap lacks a keeper for the holster body attached closing strap. A remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels? Figure 47c shows a table or bench with several Police Lugers and accessories and particularly interesting in the foreground is a muzzle protector, next to three training rounds. The Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm. What is unclear is the status of the Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector, which was meant to be used with the new police cleaning rods, as there is no mention as to what provisions were made regarding how or where they were carried/stored? Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Gustav Reinhardt Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L. Sch.137. The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. This rare leather S.K.g 715 holster by Otto Stuertz Allenstein is in excellent condition. Pictured is a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel. Pictured is a similar aftermarket P08 and police stick-wing acceptance stamped muzzle protector disassembled. It is not very important if the delivery of these pistols took place just before the 1st of January 1930, or just after (invoiced by Mauser).". Captain Ernst Roehm, future head of the SA [Sturmabteilung, a.k.a. Note: Air surveillance departments controlled by the provincial In actuality, a really rhetorical issue, as except for the two pictured and discussed holsters, being the only known published examples noted to date. An inspection of other pre-WW1 Artillery holster/stocks in the collection shows yet another shape/style and size of cleaning rod pouch/sleeve affixed brass stud. On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. Hard to find historic variation. Die Pistolen der Polizie, dated Dresden 1946, other pistols listed are mostly 7.65 mm caliber, Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster, a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal were issued to. Pictured is the holster used with the 1950s Bahnpolizei FN 1922 pistol, separate and together with pistol. The initials MG represent machine gun and the number being (page 108) 10th Training Corps or (page 216) with the 10 denoting the team number. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 5 ----------------------------------------------------------. Still and as illustrated in a very rare 1930s Walther advertising brochure titled: WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung and an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. The police officer is therefore faced with the varied expenses. If you collect Lugers, you need this book. aware or familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as TBLAP Ulle diese Reuregelungen sind bei der Bearbeitung der zweiten Uuslage berudschtigt worden und haben in einigen Ubschnitten umsangreiche Uenderungen notwendig gemacht. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Der herausgeber. 33. The first set of letters on the line indicate the military or police unit 1074." or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol number 10742and post 1934 by adding a magazine safety. He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. 1374v. 19-130 text caption: A post-WW1 new manufactured police issue cleaning rod with soft-soldered stop for use with the Mndungsschoner for the P.08.These were issued to the police on a scale of one per pistol.Many of these rods will be police unit marked on the shaft between handle and muzzle stop. The lower of the two (brass) studs is not an original German stud. Note, these two WaAJL16 holsters are in private collections and are not pictured or discussed in any prior Luger publications, except on Luger forum sites with the last mention of the WaAJL16 stampings being discussed in 2008. Abtlg. ad[6]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash2.jpg'; 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. 11-17-2022 12:57 PM by Pistol. It was one of 1,000 purchased by the U.S. 3 days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY UNIT MARKED LUGER SEMI-AUTO. The chemical is a yellowish clear liquid with a consistency expected of a light oil. by dk598 16 Aug 2016, 04:12. the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster, fully inserted in the original, unmodified cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, a cover flap modified by adding a section of leather, allowing the cover flap to completely close over the seven ring wooden barrel Police cleaning rod handle, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud, the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location. the new police cleaning rod with brass stopper. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 10 ----------------------------------------------------------. the two-piece muzzle protector assembly over the barrel sight band/blade, then The conclusion being is that the modification, if indeed done for the reason described, was an ill-conceived, poorly thought out exercise that didnt work out, and that the special Police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, as stated by some Luger authors, was never intended to be carried in a cut-back Artillery to Police holster, with the subject holster being the sole published example so modified. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. empire and the Prussian constitution have already seen some important additions: further laws are expected in the near future. This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjernes Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. presidents were stamped like the police schools, but with an "L" instead regulations issued in 1930, and are shown in the following table. Allenstein district. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. August Weiss states further that the 'Riff' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928. RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner. A noted holster collector and expert states after examining pictures of the subject unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster that: The cleaning rod leather section added to the subject Artillery cleaning rod pouch or sleeve, came from an original sleeve. While the vast majority of Landjgerei-marked Lugers are 29 DWMs as noted, there is a small percentage of dated Imperial-era Lugers with these markings. Military Control Commission), was established to enforce the provisions of var ad=new Array() Approximately 5 produced (2 originals known), not numbered. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help Pictured are multiple views of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859. states the following regarding this variation. Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, where no additional marks were added. This gives him the inner support, the calm appearance in the deficiency, the sure success and thus an increased enthusiasm and love for the profession. The press scolded for its frequent use of "Roman characters" under "Jewish influence" and German migrs urged to use only "German script". RIA has no less than 19 rare Krieghoff Lugers including commercial and Luftwaffe military contract guns. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. 4. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster, the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked, the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner, Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s. What magazine variation is proper for your Luger P.08? Please help me with identifying those markings. But when Nazi party came to power, and started preparation. In actuality, both above statements are correct, as the first statement that a majority of the cut-back LP.08 holsters used by the police are without a police cleaning rod is accurate, however, in cannot be denied that some, at least one, in this instance, was modified (unsuccessfully), specifically to carry the police cleaning rod as evidenced the very rare subject example. The lack of relevant textbooks has often been put to the test. ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men. Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. The L.Z.A. Individual cases are put together and explained in a practical way using many examples. 3 Arming Weimar Germany, including Weimar Police Lugers, the Sear Safety, the Magazine Safety, profiles of Weimar Police Lugers, Police holsters, Police Magazines and Police tools & miscellaneous. The subject pictured, aftermarket LOB Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector, stamped on the flat with P08 and a stick wing Nazi proof is a different variation from the ERMA stamped muzzle protector pictured on page 174, Figure 28b of Third Reich Lugers. Open Fullscreen Lot 3320: DWM Blank Chamber Police Luger Rig with Prussian Unit Markings Mauser Blank Chamber 1933 Police Sneak Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Rig with Unit Markings, 1933 Dated Police Holster, and Extra Magazine Auction Date: December 11, 2022 Estimated Price: $ 2,000 - $ 3,000 Price Realized: Details Payment Terms Shipping A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. Several Weimar Era Police pictures that show the box or rectangular shape belt buckles have been identified, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group wearing a FREISTAAT Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. links[4]='http://www.theoldbrigade.co.uk'; ad[7]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; The subject WaAJL16 stamped Police style holster is the first one of two noted examples with the second WaAJL16 stamped holster being a P.08 Army style holster which has generated much collector speculation and opining. collar assembly to be aligned with forward main 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. had its own police buckle. K.W.K. is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18, see page 137 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" for a similarly marked holster, RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris, This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers, Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters, a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster, two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle, an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp, a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp, Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. by von thoma 07 May 2016, 02:26, Post Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.G. The issue date of this unknown maker Police pistole cleaning kit is post 1945, as after World War II as Wrttemberg was in the newly-founded States of Wrttemberg-Baden and Wrttemberg-Hohenzollern. To the best of our knowledge, all the examples shown are original pre-1945 manufacture. Thanks to everyone who has added to this excellent and informative thread. Kriminalpolizei (detective force), Assigned to History Writ in Steel 2009 by L. Donald Maus in Chapter 9, on page 139 the author states: The markings from the Hannover district are some of the most confusing Ive seen. Come join the discussion about the history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces. Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. issued to a unit; e.g., the 351st P08 pistol issued to the Schutzpolizei 4 days Left WW2 ERA GERMAN POLICE LUGER HOLSTER RIG $150 . One of just 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings (Photos: RIA). For my database of police markings, could you tell me the serial number of this pistol and whether or not it has sear and/or mag safeties? Pictured are view 1, view 2 and view 3 of the subject Police holster. Dealers description: Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings. view 3. I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. S.Br.I.365 - Schutzpolizei of Breslau, first precinct, item 365, LS.Al.13 - item 13 of the Landjaegerei school in Allenstein, K.B.526 - item 526 of the Kriminalpolizei of Berlin. The device was manufactured by ERMA and is police E/B marked. Pictured is a WW1 P08 army holster modified to a Police holster in the 1920s or possibly early 1930s by removing the angled buckle and strap closure, converting to the police type closure by adding a pull-up strap to the holster body and adding a steel stud[4] and leather keeper strip to the cover flap. Mauser - Oberndorf, Germany&break;5. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. The Tsarist Russia contract police luger markings was published in February d. Zs are three views of light. Model 1906 9mm para made for the Tsarist Russia contract FN Model 1922 pistol, separate and together with.! Found, the factual responsibility of the the blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13.! Used an earlier, relatively obscure 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model pistol. 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